"Informal Talk at Gregoire’s house - 29 September 1982" is to be found in transcription on our Nirmal Vidya web site - but no sound is there. So, the dubious words are written under {...} Here we We quote a large part of the question/answer session. Its importance will be self-evident.
…/… Sahaja Yogi: I don’t understand. / Another Sahaja Yogi: Now, in the beginning they were realized all…
Shri Mataji: Aaa?
Sahaja Yogi: In the beginning it was realization, in the human starts.
Shri Mataji: No, no, they were not realized. They were human beings. But they had to grow in life, you see, in inner being, as they don’t go in for all these.
Sahaja Yogi: Stay in the middle.
Shri Mataji: That’s why it is, you see.
Sahaja Yogi: Mother, I don’t understand this because if they were not realized surely they were not fulfilled because that’s…
Shri Mataji: No, no, it’s only that they would have been fulfilled. They were told that, you see? Supposing now I give you a house, very big, everything, garden, you have no problem of money, nothing. You just stay here and enjoy yourself and grow, have no complications. You have every freedom. And also { He } told us only a particular thing {that} you just don’t do, that is : to go into the inquiry about something. It means mental projections, simple thing.
Sahaja Yogi: Aha. So the first thing is mental projection.
Shri Mataji: Of course, thinking is the main thing.
Sahaja Yogi: This I did not understand.
Shri Mataji: Yes, the mental projection in the sense that God has told us to obey Him. But they won’t {obey }.
It happens even in Sahaja Yoga. I tell you not to do it, but you just do it. And then you suffer for that. So the other way {which} was left, was to make them understand through their own sufferings. This is specially, this is done as specially. Then all those things, you see, started off, because you went so wrong and everything. And then, you see, then it started that we had [freedom]. I mean He, He had not control over them, in a way.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, it’s true.
Shri Mataji: There was no control over human beings of God. It’s this: He could control them.
Sahaja Yogi {he is referring to the original sin in the Bible} : But then it is not the…What I was a little bit afraid, Mother, it can sound when we read the book of Genesis, it can sound like, - I could never accept this story!- because it sounds like your seeking itself was a sin actually.
Shri Mataji: What was it?
Sahaja Yogi: It sounded like if seeking is a sin.
Shri Mataji: No, no, because the knowledge is confused. You see, a big confusion it is there. Then you don’t have to have Vidya also. You see, your vidya would have been given there. So Self-realization would have been there. What is the vidya needed? You could have come up. Now the vidya has to be there also because you have so many complications within you. You see, you can’t imagine how terrible it is.
Sahaja Yogi: OK, good, without…
Shri Mataji: God has lost all control over human beings. They became ego-oriented, separated from God. They developed, developed their identities. Not only that; they created all problems for themselves.
Now, I mean to work it out. One had to do a very big programming for them to learn how to use their freedom. Now in their freedom how they behave? See, you can see it in Sahaja Yoga.
Sahaja Yogi: Yeah.
Shri Mataji: How Sahaja Yogis get entangled into their smaller things saying, “This is mine. That is mine. That is mine,” isn’t it? It’s like that, whatever you may try! All this is, this is, actually the knowledge they wanted to know, was this knowledge. And there was no need for them to, [first they] get realization, Sahaja Yoga. Nothing was needed. There was no need to have incarnations. They sent incarnations to try.
Sahaja Yogi: That’s why.
Shri Mataji: Because nothing else was needed. They were all ruined. You would have not seen me otherwise also, but without questioning of His work. You see, it is a very long way. And how many will not come! Then what a headache for God! I mean, the others], say, need tremendous patience. And still they are disobeying, are disobeying. Human beings are disobeying all the time. It’s not only curiosity. It’s also their own ego, to tell other people ‘this thing is done’. Simple curiosity! And there is no way of understanding how they have to serve God. Why?
I mean, imagine God’s created them, told them everything, and they have to just wait and see, that’s all. No! - but they must do something that is told not to do. It is a powerful story, but because it is so symbolical, these stupid fools cannot explain. These are another set of people who are just the same, part and parcel of the whole. Just dim style of a people! So, all this is disobedience.
Krishna came, said, “Sharanam, Sharanam Mamah, Sharanam Mamah, Sharanam Mamah,” {=Krishna is my refuge} you see. Buddha came and said, “Buddham Sharanam Gachami {=I take shelter in the Enlightened One} is this, this is.” Everywhere is 'surrender your ego'. Surrender? Why to surrender? “We are great, you see, created by ourselves!” Ego is tremendous.
I mean, only a Mother can see that and then bear it. And despite all that, God tried to save you because God does that. So supposing you want, you are given this house. What is the need to know from where it has come, so much money, this, that? What is the need? Suppose the carpet is there. Why? God is not that. They don’t tell us. Their heart if they would have had God there, obeys! Obedience of a man. Then they get the response.
Sahaja Yogi: What’s wrong with that?
Shri Mataji: They are weak. With your brain you cannot know. You really have brains; that’s all. And imagine the tremendous amount of trouble God has to take.
So, see the extremes, the religions, this religion, that religion! Then, you see how human beings have been doing really stupid things throughout the seeking. When He has given you everything, what was the need? I can understand one error, but you can’t take them also, because there is a little bit progress, the [others with the] whole mountains and mountains they have created out of ignorance. Because the more you think, the more ignorant you become of God. It’s very, very symbolic, but the trouble with Bible, you see, is that was a very abridged {=shortened} form, you see, the whole thing. And because of that {you just got}, all the small necessary things {…}
But I didn’t talk about this before much, because, you see, that {would} make people feel so : again doing all these, again doing all this nonsense, and feel guilty and {say nasty things}.
A man, it’s like a bull, you see, who gets adamant, obstinate. While he’s running he is horrible. When he stops he is horrible; no control.
So according to the plan, it’s gradually I’m opening my heart: I mean, saying what is the truth behind the Sahaja Yoga.
I mean, this is the effort of God, you can say, the effort of God, how patient He is! And anybody who was sent here to tell you anything, was killed -why? Anybody tried to control or say, “Do this for God!” was finished. Disobedience was not only there, but also arrogance is also there.
So when I tell to these English Sahaja Yogis: “You must meditate every day, do Pujas, this thing, that thing. To say that, you have to surrender also.”
Adi Shankaracharya ultimately gave up. He said, “Done, Baba, finished with these intellectual! So I am just going to sing the praise of Mother, that, so that She comes on this earth and solves the problems for all of u!” He wouldn’t go into the, anymore, well, worry of convincing, people. Got frightened! Because, if Mother comes, She solves the problems. It is their work you see, their work.
Everybody gets -if you see their lives and the {end they got!} Imagine! Killing these people! So many wrote the Scriptures doing this, doing that. And on top of that when they are dead, making big, new, organizations, all these organizations, and then using those organizations to fight each other.
I mean, it was supposed to lead you to {search God}. Absolute stupidity, I tell you, absolute stupidity! That’s what I thought. But, {you shouldn't say}, I say so. I say that it is stupidity because still, the game, it’s not over.
Let us try the last chance.
If that is so, then you must all understand your responsibility as Sahaja Yogis. You must understand your responsibility. Forget about your personal life! This personal, forget it! How much time you think about your personal life? You have to have a big vision of yourselves. See now how what you are and what’s important.
Otherwise, when the other force will start you’ll be thrown out.
All this stupidity! It’s all right. You should worry about the present, not about anything else. Couldn’t be in {lost in} daily circumstances, you see, {...} . And then from there they start {plunging}. What to do? It’s so: the times, I say, because I can’t stand it. So finish this nonsense! Let it be finished!
All the time you have to appease them.
Appease them: even Sahaja Yogis I have to appease!
I can understand, you see ,My family if I have to appease them because [they’re my family].
But here the Sahaja Yogis also take Me to dust absolutely.
…/… Sahaja Yogi: I don’t understand. / Another Sahaja Yogi: Now, in the beginning they were realized all…
Shri Mataji: Aaa?
Sahaja Yogi: In the beginning it was realization, in the human starts.
Sahaja Yogi: Stay in the middle.
Shri Mataji: That’s why it is, you see.
Sahaja Yogi: Mother, I don’t understand this because if they were not realized surely they were not fulfilled because that’s…
Shri Mataji: No, no, it’s only that they would have been fulfilled. They were told that, you see? Supposing now I give you a house, very big, everything, garden, you have no problem of money, nothing. You just stay here and enjoy yourself and grow, have no complications. You have every freedom. And also { He } told us only a particular thing {that} you just don’t do, that is : to go into the inquiry about something. It means mental projections, simple thing.
Sahaja Yogi: Aha. So the first thing is mental projection.
Shri Mataji: Of course, thinking is the main thing.
Sahaja Yogi: This I did not understand.
Shri Mataji: Yes, the mental projection in the sense that God has told us to obey Him. But they won’t {obey }.
It happens even in Sahaja Yoga. I tell you not to do it, but you just do it. And then you suffer for that. So the other way {which} was left, was to make them understand through their own sufferings. This is specially, this is done as specially. Then all those things, you see, started off, because you went so wrong and everything. And then, you see, then it started that we had [freedom]. I mean He, He had not control over them, in a way.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, it’s true.
Shri Mataji: There was no control over human beings of God. It’s this: He could control them.
Sahaja Yogi {he is referring to the original sin in the Bible} : But then it is not the…What I was a little bit afraid, Mother, it can sound when we read the book of Genesis, it can sound like, - I could never accept this story!- because it sounds like your seeking itself was a sin actually.
Shri Mataji: What was it?
Sahaja Yogi: It sounded like if seeking is a sin.
 |
| By Raphael. |
Sahaja Yogi: OK, good, without…
Shri Mataji: God has lost all control over human beings. They became ego-oriented, separated from God. They developed, developed their identities. Not only that; they created all problems for themselves.
 |
| How Sahaja Yogis get entangled... |
Now, I mean to work it out. One had to do a very big programming for them to learn how to use their freedom. Now in their freedom how they behave? See, you can see it in Sahaja Yoga.
Sahaja Yogi: Yeah.
Shri Mataji: How Sahaja Yogis get entangled into their smaller things saying, “This is mine. That is mine. That is mine,” isn’t it? It’s like that, whatever you may try! All this is, this is, actually the knowledge they wanted to know, was this knowledge. And there was no need for them to, [first they] get realization, Sahaja Yoga. Nothing was needed. There was no need to have incarnations. They sent incarnations to try.
Sahaja Yogi: That’s why.
Shri Mataji: Because nothing else was needed. They were all ruined. You would have not seen me otherwise also, but without questioning of His work. You see, it is a very long way. And how many will not come! Then what a headache for God! I mean, the others], say, need tremendous patience. And still they are disobeying, are disobeying. Human beings are disobeying all the time. It’s not only curiosity. It’s also their own ego, to tell other people ‘this thing is done’. Simple curiosity! And there is no way of understanding how they have to serve God. Why?
Krishna came, said, “Sharanam, Sharanam Mamah, Sharanam Mamah, Sharanam Mamah,” {=Krishna is my refuge} you see. Buddha came and said, “Buddham Sharanam Gachami {=I take shelter in the Enlightened One} is this, this is.” Everywhere is 'surrender your ego'. Surrender? Why to surrender? “We are great, you see, created by ourselves!” Ego is tremendous.
I mean, only a Mother can see that and then bear it. And despite all that, God tried to save you because God does that. So supposing you want, you are given this house. What is the need to know from where it has come, so much money, this, that? What is the need? Suppose the carpet is there. Why? God is not that. They don’t tell us. Their heart if they would have had God there, obeys! Obedience of a man. Then they get the response.
 |
| Afghan child, Ph: Mc Carthy |
Sahaja Yogi: What’s wrong with that?
Shri Mataji: They are weak. With your brain you cannot know. You really have brains; that’s all. And imagine the tremendous amount of trouble God has to take.
So, see the extremes, the religions, this religion, that religion! Then, you see how human beings have been doing really stupid things throughout the seeking. When He has given you everything, what was the need? I can understand one error, but you can’t take them also, because there is a little bit progress, the [others with the] whole mountains and mountains they have created out of ignorance. Because the more you think, the more ignorant you become of God. It’s very, very symbolic, but the trouble with Bible, you see, is that was a very abridged {=shortened} form, you see, the whole thing. And because of that {you just got}, all the small necessary things {…}
A man, it’s like a bull, you see, who gets adamant, obstinate. While he’s running he is horrible. When he stops he is horrible; no control.
So according to the plan, it’s gradually I’m opening my heart: I mean, saying what is the truth behind the Sahaja Yoga.
I mean, this is the effort of God, you can say, the effort of God, how patient He is! And anybody who was sent here to tell you anything, was killed -why? Anybody tried to control or say, “Do this for God!” was finished. Disobedience was not only there, but also arrogance is also there.
So when I tell to these English Sahaja Yogis: “You must meditate every day, do Pujas, this thing, that thing. To say that, you have to surrender also.”
 |
| The narrow gate... |
Everybody gets -if you see their lives and the {end they got!} Imagine! Killing these people! So many wrote the Scriptures doing this, doing that. And on top of that when they are dead, making big, new, organizations, all these organizations, and then using those organizations to fight each other.
I mean, it was supposed to lead you to {search God}. Absolute stupidity, I tell you, absolute stupidity! That’s what I thought. But, {you shouldn't say}, I say so. I say that it is stupidity because still, the game, it’s not over.
If that is so, then you must all understand your responsibility as Sahaja Yogis. You must understand your responsibility. Forget about your personal life! This personal, forget it! How much time you think about your personal life? You have to have a big vision of yourselves. See now how what you are and what’s important.
Otherwise, when the other force will start you’ll be thrown out.
All this stupidity! It’s all right. You should worry about the present, not about anything else. Couldn’t be in {lost in} daily circumstances, you see, {...} . And then from there they start {plunging}. What to do? It’s so: the times, I say, because I can’t stand it. So finish this nonsense! Let it be finished!
All the time you have to appease them.
Appease them: even Sahaja Yogis I have to appease!
I can understand, you see ,My family if I have to appease them because [they’re my family].
But here the Sahaja Yogis also take Me to dust absolutely.
